ANKARA - Evaluating the international conspiracy against PKK Leader Abdullah Öcalan, Unite the Union's International Director Clare Baker said, "We call for an end to the isolation of Öcalan and ultimately for Öcalan to be free."

 

The International conspiracy, which PKK Leader Abdullah Ocalan considers the beginning of the 3rd World War, is entering its 25th year. Leader Abdullah Ocalan, who stayed in Syria for 19 years, said, "I do not want Syria, which has hosted me for 19 years, to be put under pressure because of me. This would be a dishonourable attitude," in a process where the states are oppressing Syria and the possibility of Turkey's attack is developing. He left Syria in October 1998. 4 months after the start of the International Conspiracy on October 9, 1998, Ocalan was kidnapped from the Greek Embassy in Kenya on February 15, 1999 and handed over to Turkey, where he was taken hostage. In the international conspiracy, many states within the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), which was established in 1949 under the leadership of the USA, and many imperialist countries and powers took part.

 

In the past 24 years, the crisis in the Middle East has deepened. Turkey's attacks on the Kurdish people, the development and growth of ISIS in the region, and the massacres of peoples and the problem of imperialist war are still alive. Alongside all this crisis and war, the world also witnessed a Rojava women's revolution, which is hope for the region. On the anniversary of the international conspiracy, we talked to Clare Baker, the International Director of the UK's largest labor union Unite the Union and coordinator of the "Freedom for Ocalan Campaign", about the changing international balances and the philosophy instilled by Ocalan, the isolation and Turkey's on-going attacks.

 

 

* When you look at the politics of the countries participating in the international conspiracy on 15 February 1999, how are these countries' attitudes towards Turkey in recent years? What attitude do these countries have towards the Kurdish movement?

 

In terms of the US and Europe since the abduction and incarceration of Mr. Ocalan and there's been huge developments in the region. Had the US and European invasion into Iraq and then everything that came from that and the subsequent rise of ISIS in the region. We saw then that the US worked with the Kurdish people in northeast Syria in particular to defeat ISIS that is still on-going. That relationship with the US and the Kurdish people in northeast Syria is still there and it's still on-going. It's very precarious. We've seen in the Trump era, where they were very let down by him, where he pulled the troops out very quickly and Turkey invaded northeast Syria. They're holding Turkey back from invading which they've been threatening for the last couple of months. In terms of Europe,  Europe's been very weak. When dealing with Turkey, they always are dictated to by the refugee crisis, Turkey obviously blackmails Europe with that unable to act really with impunity. In regards to Europe, they can pretty much get away with anything. Turkey is still a key country to these international players still, and that probably will never change. So, it's always about those international alliances, and since he's been abducted, that hasn't changed. But around it we've seen better working with the Kurds, and we hope that in the future, that support of the Kurds continues.

 

* The isolation on Mr. Ocalan is being aggravated by Turkey. Despite thousands of applications for seeing him, the Ministry of Justice remains silent. How do you evaluate this silence against a public's leader?

 

The silence against Mr. Ocalan is part of a wider silencing of the Kurdish people. The politics of social justice of women's rights, and equality inside Turkey itself Mr. Ocalan stands for all of these things. And all of these things are in total opposition to the politics that are currently being practiced by the Turkish state. Mr. Ocalan’s isolation is not only happening to him, I mean, it is happening to him physically, but it's also happening to a whole chunk of the Turkish population, from the Kurdish people themselves to women, from LGBT activists, to the independent trade union movement. In Turkey, they're all being repressed and oppressed by the Turkish state and Mr. Ocalan isolation is the most extreme example of this. It is the pinnacle of a political practice by the Turkish state of oppression of all aggressive groups.

 

 

* When the February 15 international conspiracy was committed, the responsible countries and other countries made a promise that they would follow Mr. Ocalan's captivity and conditions. When we look at this day, has this promise really been kept?

 

No, it hasn't been kept at all. Mr. Ocalan’s isolation physically, of course continues on in Imrali Island but he's also isolated in the international community, as are the Kurdish people as well. Mr. Ocalan is not widely written about in the press across Europe in the US. The communities say in the UK, for example, people don't know who he is or what he stands for. The governments are barely interested in the conditions that he is in. It just seems that it's something that they decide. The CPT for example, doesn't follow up on any observations or decisions that are made on his situation. And despite his situation being recognized as torture, under all international standards, nothing is done about it and Turkey is not made to improve his conditions. As I said before, Mr. Ocalan isolation is an extreme example. But the inhumane treatment of prisoners, the exaggerated life sentences of NGOs that stand for peace and equality in Turkey is also very well-known and there's very little international pressure for this to change and Turkey is able to treat prisoners outside of all international norms and do so with impunity.

 

* For example, the CPT made a visit but did not even disclose whether it had met with Mr. Ocalan. Has it fulfilled its duty?

 

It hasn't fulfilled its duty. It’s really clear that international politics has a huge effect on CPT and other organizations that look at the treatment of prisoners internationally. No discussions that have been heard Mr. Ocalan and any decisions that have been made about his conditions have ever been implemented, or forced Turkey to implement them not just for Mr. Ocalan, but for other political prisoners in Turkey. It all comes back down to again, like we've said before where the international community see Turkey as a key pivotal country in geopolitics and I feel that the need to keep Turkey as a state on side to many in the international community is more important to them than the human, the civil and the worker rights of the people in Turkey. So, those institutions shouldn't believe that they seem to be very affected by international politics and where Turkey sits at that particular time within the international community.

 

 

* Turkey has declared that even the right of hope has been taken away from Mr. Ocalan, is such a thing possible in law?

 

Protecting the rights of hope, which is a feeling, should not be possible to be removed by law. But we see that Turkey is both breaking international and domestic law in its incarceration of Mr. Ocalan and the fact that there are no consequences to that, results in this, the continued oppression of his own mental health and therefore his home. There is always hope, he is the political leader of a movement of people, and he wrote some amazing books and he wrote a roadmap to peace and he has inspired the people of northeast Syria to begin a society that's rooted in equality of women's rights, women's liberation. And it's inspired the herds of Turkey to try to implement similar things that they're able to within their own communities. But not just within those areas, but across the globe. He's inspired people across the globe, especially on women's liberation. As in the Turkish state, might try to take Ocalan hope but the fact that he has written all this darkness by these people gives hope out there. And they can't stop that there's no way that any kind of legislation or oppression or violence can repress hope in groups of people and there is an election coming in Turkey. So that gives hope in itself. We don't know what the results will be and we know that in the lead up to the election, it's probably going to get worse and more repression and more oppression for people in the run up to it, especially the Kurdish people. But there is hope for improvement after that election takes place for the lives of all Turkish people, for Kurdish people, and for Ocalan himself.

 

 

* We can say that Erdogan has a strong hand in international politics right now. How appropriate is it for human rights to allow him to use this power against the Kurdish people and their leader?

 

 It's really quite astonishing that the international community allowed Erdogan to take the role of peacemaker in the Russian-Ukrainian conflict and for him to be held up high and congratulate for that role while he does exactly the same thing himself in northeast Syria. In terms of NATO, it was extraordinary just disappointing how quickly though, the governments of Finland and Sweden capitulated to Erdogan's demands about the joining of NATO after the Russia-Ukraine conflict. Especially, Sweden has a fantastic history on human rights and solidarity. Now they threw that all out the window in order to get onside with Erdogan and in their fear of one dictator they appeased another dictator. So, that all was extraordinarily astonishing, and I know that there's a little bit of movement now within Sweden against this the throwing of human rights and Kurdish people's rights out the window, but it's very worrying that they will be happy to extradite Kurdish people to Turkey, just in order to become part of NATO. It's also a real tragedy that the refugee crisis is used by Erdogan to blackmail Europe as I said before. Europe basically submits to everything that Erdogan asks for and says, because they're so fearful of Erdogan opening the borders and pushing refugees out into Europe, which plays into the hands of the very, very extreme right wing in Europe. So, they pretty much let Turkey do what they like in order for them to protect for want of a better word to protect their borders against the refugees. So, it's just shocking the role that the international community allows Erdogan to play in regards to peace in regards to refugees, etc. when the Turkish state is responsible for ethnic cleansing for more refugee crises and for military actions and against peace in the area.

 

7-/ Finally, I would like to ask: Will institutions and international forces continue to be compatible with Erdogan's policies?

 

I think it's going to become more difficult for the international community to ignore the actions of Turkey against its own people and against people outside of its borders. There's already growing unease in the international community with Turkish threats against Greece. They are very a growing unease within the US about selling Turkey fighter jets, it is concerned with Turkey's strong links that they've got with Russia. However, there's always going to be that fear of pushing Turkey towards Russia or pushing Turkey towards China. So the international community is always going to walk this fine line of supporting Turkey enough that they don't go towards Russia or China. But to hold it back like the US is doing at the moment in committing some of the worst sort of atrocities that they could possibly commit. But obviously, things change quickly in international politics and alliances also change. Really, we would hope that the international community would support those who supported them during the fight against the barbarism of ISIS, we would hope that they would make good on keeping those people safe, the Kurdish people that are safe against ISIS and against Turkey, where they're much linked. The Kurdish people have the values of democracy and peace that is supposed to be compatible with the International rhetoric. They are the people that we should be supporting against extremism and repression that the Turkish state and DAİŞ both threaten them with. So, we would call on the Turkish Government to restart peace talks, to end the isolation of Ocalan and ultimately for Ocalan to be free, in order for him to take his role in those peace talks, and for the people of the region to be able to live in equality with the women live to be liberated, and for people to live in peace.